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Sorry I havent seen or experimented with stall footing. A couple of extra tips; Dr. Ann Swinker (professor of Equine Sciences) says: Ideally a two layer footing system works best when working with gravel. Im so happy I found your website! I have been doing research on the geogrids and stumbled on this wonderful and very helpful ariticle by Jini Thank you Absolute BEST Barn Design for Horses or Cows Cold or Heat! Foundation for buildings, roads, parking lots, railroads, etc. ), they told me that the Cloverdale Racetrack uses limestone gravel for their track. Stabilizing a Muddy Road. The perforated pipes may then drain far enough away from your yard to be safe. Rubber Mats Btw, nope, he doesnt know anything thats not already in this article. My question is this: When I do the paddock area with the 3 layers of stone like you explained; what do you recommend for inside the run in? Im mulling the idea of doing a video/blog post just about gravel terminology and what its called in different areas. Im going to pick his oh-so-experienced brain and see if he knows anything we dont already know or has some tips or tweaks that make a world of difference. Meditation Claim Your Reality in this Crazy World, When your Horse says No Perhaps the Process IS the Point, How to Manifest the Land of Your Dreams Part 4. #4 Gravel stone is made of limerock from 1 inch to 2 1/2 inches in size. I only bring this up because who would ever think that doing the right thing for your horses would be against the law. by. The two layers lock together and when compacted, created a smooth surface for turf to be laid on top of. So if you scrape down during a wet season, the rain will just turn the formerly compacted soil into more mud. So if your paddock usually turns into 5 inches of mud, then use 5 inches of footing. Either that or you need to lay the plastic drainage mats but thats even more expensive. In this front area I call the paddock are their water tubs and 2 walk-in shelters, each with its own slow feeder and rubber mats. The chips are soft and they can lay on them but more often they pee on them. Unless you are willing to have the top layer scraped off (and evened out again), and new crusher dust (1/4 minus) laid down every year ($$) its just never going to work well in a rainy climate. Thanks so much for your help! Hey Paul, if your fine gravel locks together (i.e. You can order bulk limestone in Virginia today! Typically, you'll use a plastic perforated barrel filled with stone, buried at least 10 feet from your house's foundation. GAH this is the bane of my existence! 4 inch Dig 2 inches of lime stone compacted. GABION ROCK - 3" X 5" CRUSHED LIMESTONE. 1.5 inches equals .125 feet The more frisky/active your horses are, the more they tear up the gravel. The one thing you notice when youre trying to price out gravel or crusher dust, is that pricing tends to be in cubic yards. 2015-2023 Listen To Your Gut Enterprises Inc. ALL images and text. This way, Im not having to shovel it back in to the center as it builds up along the edges (where its wasted). Just wondering about freezing. I know nothing about it, so Im just asking you questions to stimulate your thoughts/research. You need the jagged edges and different particle sizes for the footing to pack down well and not just slide around every time a hoof punches down on it. This is the best article I have read on this subject! Ive been researching every option, trying to come up with the best (and economical) course of action, so I apreciate your in depth article. NATIVE SOUTH TEXAS RIVER ROCK. The bottom layer is called a permeable aggregate base coarse and the top is a permeable aggregate top coarse. Thanks again for the very informative article! If you live in a climate that only gets occasional rain, or a short rainy season, then you may be able to just lay either a commercial-grade shielding fabric or a specialized plastic draingrid on top of the hard pan soil, then layer 2-4 inches of 3/4 inch minus pea gravel and top that with a 2-inch layer of 1/4 inch minus limestone gravel, or crusher dust. I forget the size but its small enough to fall through the manure fork. My least favourite footing is hogfuel and Id probably have them stand in mud over hogfuel because when hogfuel is new, it is very acidic and it etches out the sole of the foot, leaving the foot more vulnerable (Ive seen hooves so bad on it that a hoofpick can poke through the sole easily. Crushed limestone typically produced by mining limestone or dolomite rock deposits. Even though we moved some gravel over from other parts of the paddock, the gravel had sunk down into the soil all over, so there wasnt much left to scavenge. Thanks you so much! My own experience (keep reading) confirms this. We have a rescue donkey and rescue OTTB that love to roll in mud but after 4 days of rain, its too much mud! Fantastic information Pippa thanks so much for letting us know! Perhaps in smaller, high traffic areas concrete is the cheapest long term solution! Our horses stay in the barn overnight in winter and are out during the day, and this is reversed in summer so the horses graze when its cooler at night. Like Hoffmans? We recommend using this for the topcoat layer for patios and walls. You should dig the hole 4 feet deep and just as wide. However, at my current property, after doing everything exactly right, with the commercial-grade barrier cloth and all the right layers, by the end of the winter there were still craters and low spots in the footing. You can then layer it with geocell to prevent pooling and unstable ground. material calculator delivery rates #10 Limestone Screenings This is our finely screened crushed grey limestone. BUT the paddock area in front of the shelters is going to get a lot of traffic, and will quickly turn into a mud pit. During my research, I also called BC Parks & Rec who commission the horse trails in the provincial parks here and asked them what they did, as their trails seem to stay in pretty good shape all winter long, with lots of traffic on them. So you cannot leave any of this organic matter sitting on your gravel, or else it will quickly break down into a mucky layer that defeats the whole purpose. State Approved Road Base View Ad. Their paddock is 8000 sq feet, so cost is definitely an issue. So, how do you fix and dry up a wet yard? They have a program that subsidizes horse owners to improve drainage. If you had a docile herd of 2-3 horses you would likely be just fine. For sure, a base layer of well-compacted, large, well-draining rock would have helped prevent the 1/4 minus from being taken over by the mud so quickly. So far so good. Upload attachment(Allowed file types: jpg, gif, png, pdf, doc, docx, maximum file size: 8MB. But then youre hooped, because you just wont be willing to scrape away $2,000 worth of gravel and start again with the Geotextile! To ensure adequate drainage for the stable when using any type of flooring, elevate the top of the stall floor at least 12 inches above the outside ground level. Please let us know how it goes for you. 1. . Ive heard gravel and have been avoiding it, but I am now considering it from your article/blog. It makes total sense though that it would be slippery when wet/freezing. About #4 Limestone Gravel Gray. The sand was dumped and spread about 2 weeks later. Its working out perfectly. yd. So 3/4 inch minus gravel means that the largest particle size is 3/4 of an inch and all the gravel in the load is guaranteed to be 3/4 inch or smaller. After just completing yet another experiment, I would say the Geotextile is non-negotiable!! However, on the flip side of that argument, here's what a Farrier has to say about why she prefers crusher dust: "As a farrier, my favourite footing in this area is crusher dust. Shamanic Journey & Psychic Predictions from 5 Years Ago! The toxic effects of Russian knapweed and yellow star-thistle are cumulative, meaning that poisoning normally results when levels of the toxin build up in the body over time due to horses routinely grazing these plants. Were doing the paddocks now using your advice. 1.5 tons are enough for one cubic yard. Horse was very lame. However, on the flip side of that argument, heres what a Farrier has to say about why she prefers crusher dust: As a farrier, my favourite footing in this area is crusher dust. Ive not heard of that. Remember, he uses 5-6 inches of 3 rock on top of the Nilex geotextile, then 5-6 inches of 3/4 minus gravel on top of that. However, you dont want to use sand if your horses are going to be eating on the surface (can cause colic if ingested). You can also subscribe without commenting. By the ton, the costs of crushed limestone will vary anywhere from $20 to as much as $30. BUT if you can teach them where to poo that could buy you 2-3 years before having to scrape/freshen. This rock has rock dust and smaller pieces of rock added to the mixture. Google+; I was at a different stable where the horses just pulled up the barrier after digging down to it. A friend of mine who builds roads in the Vancouver area and whose father builds horse arenas told me that you can go down 6 feet and you still wont hit any kind of hard soil or anything that would provide a barrier to your gravel sinking away. Top layer: Crusher Dust, But if not, then youre going to have to put down either geotextile cloth, or the plastic grid mats and then lay your gravel. My questions are as follows: if I use your advice of geotextile fabric with layers of gravel am I going to get washing of the fine gravel on the slopes with heavy rain? Im in Virginia, USA and have been researching what to do for the muddy parts of our barn and our sacrifice lot. The other stuff is too loose and just moves out of the way like pea gravel. 3. He suggests you lay down 5-6 inches of a 3-inch minus rock layer first, to provide that hard layer and then put your gravel on top of that, or you will just have to dump the same amount of gravel every year, year after year, because it just keeps sinking. I like the fines so far for helping with the mud, but for sure am trying a longer term solution. It simply means that the particle size of the gravel is guaranteed to be less than the measurement. and I love the photos!!!! Go ahead and compact again. The sand/gravel mix we have used is called Hoggin here and the best description I can find is on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoggin. Also goes a long way to keep down the fly/flea population. Gravel is extremely simple to put on lawns and offers a long-term solution. You now need to compact your paddock surface use a tamping/compacting machine and water the gravel between tamping to make sure it compacts down well. Call 360-318-8554 to order rock or gravel delivered in Whatcom County. https://www.listentoyourhorse.com/equine-permaculture-in-rainy-climates-system-for-sustainable-pastures/, https://www.listentoyourhorse.com/adventures-in-culvert-drainage-for-my-horse-paddock/, Ginny Interviews Jini for the Interspecies Evolution Podcast, Montaros Emancipation My Freedom is Your Freedom, Heart Opening Meditation with the Herd & Land, Montaros Journey: Healing the Wounded Angry Masculine, Messages from Burdock (Burrs), Raven & The Herd, The Herd Out My Window Esoteric Musings, Laminitis, Cushings, Founder Healing Session for Your Horse, Pain, Injury, Competition Brainwashing & Dissociation, The Geography of Belonging Horses & Love in Zimbabwe. If your horses are restricted to a small area, they may then start pulling on the cloth to play with it. I totally understand that opinions are just that but yours is certainly very informed. I have been on two rental properties and each time didnt think it was worth doing the geotextile, but even if you only stay 2 years, its worth it. Id like something that would be most comfortable as they sometimes stay in there for a longer period of time, like heavy rain or cold windy days. A French drain offers a gravity-assisted means of keeping the yard free from excess moisture. There are many opinions of course as to which is best, in fact it can be a bit overwhelming at times so I would appreciate any guidance. It is still porous so urine soaks through reducing the need for bedding removal. Have you ever read about this? So instead of implementing what I know would be a great solution, instead, Im trying to figure out the most cost-effective way of making sure my horses dont get thrush and can maintain healthy hooves through this years wet, rainy Winter and Spring. The solution is often not to remove them, but to heed their message and increase the health of your soil. Which Paddock Surface is Best for a Rainy Climate? No the woodchips are not from the bark which is very tannic. When you say horse rooms Im assuming you mean stalls or stables? . In the summer. So another friend of mine who builds both roads and horse trails in provincial parks, says that you cant just put the 3-inch rock layer down. If we have low-sugar hay in slowfeeders/haynets available 24/7 then our horses do not have to eat toxic plants to assauge the acid in their gut. If the supplier charges by the yard, then the costs can be about $27 . Thanks for your time. If I had known I would need him, I would have had him spend 30-60 minutes removing that topsoil/grass layer first, before spreading the gravel. GABION ROCK - 4" X 8" CRUSHED LIMESTONE. It has great drainage, and my one complaint is that it gets dusty in the summer, but I consider that a small price to pay for a dry arena in the winter. It was great to read such an informative article. If you dont care about the hows and the whys and the research and you just want the solution fast, then heres what I recommend after not only turning this area into a dry paddock but also after increasing my herd to 11 horses, moving to another property, and creating a dry paddock there! We just built our barn last fall. For my super rainy climate (the Pacific Northwest coast) after trying cheaper variations and having to spend an additional $2,000 on gravel every year, because it just kept sinking I finally hired my friend Mitchell, who gets the commercial-grade barrier material from Nilex, to come in and do it right for me. Lime is derived from limestone and is used in agriculture and gardening to balance the acidity level of soil. This seriously impacts my decision-making process. Your email address will not be published. It isnt something the horses prefer to roll in but give them options on a rainy day and they will stand on it over most other footings. Make three zones in your rain garden: a moist zone at the bottom, a middle area, and a transition zone at the lawns border. Wouldnt have cost much extra, but would have greatly extended the life of the gravel I ordered. I have already tried to scrape down a few layers last year and dig a trench through the center of their paddock but it hasnt worked as i didnt grade the area well enough.. Seriously, DO it. what do you think? Yes the mats may pull away from the edges/wall as the ground underneath becomes uneven, but Im thinking that would be less hassle than multiple join-lines separating. We dont have as much rain as you all in the NW but we do have LOTS of hills and so we get drainage across our fields. So now that I have all the information needed to make a good decision about what is the best paddock surface for horses in a wet, rainy climate its time to look at what Im prepared to spend! Vet found him full of crusher run. 1. Paths made of large limestone pavers are also popular, but with big slabs some considerations have to be taken into account. Great info. Rotted chips basically become soil. Among the other options are crushed stone #411, quarry process, pea gravel, jersey shore gravel, marble chips, and river rock. One thing that I did and would highly recommend is after having the 3 minus delivered we rented a 1000 lb plate compactor and compacted the arena surface for a full week, many, many, many times. They said it packs down better than pea gravel in the rain, there are less of the tiny stones to get stuck in the horses hooves, and its easy to shovel manure off of. This is where we can choose to support our horses in a wholistic manner. As long as you keep their hay off the sand (hay nets with a large bucket or built in container to catch escaped hay underneath?) I would not use it. And next year, I had to spend another $2K to spread 3/4-inch minus gravel on top. crushed limestone for muddy yard. HOW are these plants, actually helping or addressing an imbalance in your soil? If you can maximize drainage OUT of your gravel areas (using sloped land, French Drains, etc), then it might last a lot longer. They are then free to honor their body wisdom and *listen* to their body because they are not in physical or psychological scarcity. Just purchased Nov of 17 and boy it was a wet muddy mess for my 3 because I only had one month to get so much done before I could move them in. You have to be sort of careful of sharp twigs if not screened but I have not had any problems over 19 years. I hear what youre saying though and why it would work well. After tilling is complete, spread the required amount . Im less concerned with the following years, since I may not even be there. The best way to fix a muddy driveway is with TRUEGRID permeable pavers. https://www.listentoyourhorse.com/equine-permaculture-in-rainy-climates-system-for-sustainable-pastures/, great info, i really appreciate you sharing with others as it takes time to post such info with pictures, too. Excellent article, and appreciate the before and after pics. When I called a local nursery that sells everything (pea gravel, crusher dust, limestone, sand, mulch etc. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Post some before/after pics for us if you can You can upload them right here. Outside is not so good; it gets slippery when wet and is even worse when it freezes so this year I have put some gravel/sand mix on top of the chalk in some areas and so far that is performing better. I havent read all of it yet, but for raking leaves that is very labour intensive I would suggest a leaf blower. What does minus mean, when referring to gravel? Just what I needed for my muddy hillside Tennessee horse farm. Approximately 9 cu. Note: Some people like to put a layer of crusher dust as their top layer, but Ive found the fines in crusher really interfere with drainage, as they form this solid packed layer on top of all the gravel. An easy way to tell the difference is that crushed drain rock is usually variegated (the grains will have multiple colors) while a quarried rock will mostly consist of the same color hue. And thanks so much for letting all of us know. Arizona River Rock. Well, because of the difficulties cleaning the manure and leaves off it (detailed above) AND the horses will not lie down on the gravel, but they will lie down on the crusher dust. For a 6-foot- (1.8- meter-) wide trail, this amounts to about 1 cubic yard (0.76 cubic meter) of loose material per 6 . If you look at horse stables/properties all over the UK that is what they do. Oh, and even though I added a new portable shelter for them, so they could stand outside to eat, this rain cover did not prevent the gravel from sinking into the ground around the slow feeders by April; just from the wear and tear of their hooves without any rainfall on it. Because ALL ground sinks and displaces unevenly as weather and moisture changes. 2. I think the punchiness of horses hooves disturbs the gravel so much, that all that needs to happen is for them to punch through to the geotextile in a very small spot and then that quickly enlarges.